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-   -   36 hours on "black box" (http://www.speedforsale.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2450)

CCTPREZ 06-18-2009 08:15 PM

36 hours on "black box"
 
I just left the nissan dealership in my area, and was told by the master mechanic that the black box in the R35 only records for 36 hours, than over laps the information (loops). I thought this to be valuable info for those who have warranty voiding mods. He said he was sure of this, but when asked about just leaving the car in the "on" position (not running) for 36 hours, he said he wasn't positive, but knew if it was running, the info would be a "flat line" IF ran without mods for 36 hours straight. This includes launching, Programmers, track runs, etc. Again just thought it to be possible useful info for some out there. It makes sense, but not personally verified.

totsubo 06-19-2009 10:31 AM

Nice information.

cmd51230 06-19-2009 10:59 AM

Something about this doesn't sound right. I personally know of folks who have not launched weeks in advance of service, and they were still able to dump 100% accurately every single time they turned off VDC.

I'd take this with a grain of salt...

CCTPREZ 06-19-2009 01:04 PM

Hmmm? I called him back to tell him what you said (and confirm another post), and he explained that the black box is a hard drive of sorts and can only store so much info. He told me to believe what I wanted on forums, but he is a master Nissan mechanic that owns a new GTR, and has the equipment, contacts, and training to know this car inside and out. I gave him the link to the site, as he wants to join and clear up any misconceptions. I don't know...I just drive it, and have a blast, but thought i'd share if it helped others.

cmd51230 06-19-2009 01:35 PM

Absolutely, and if I came across as unappreciative, then that is not what my intentions were. The more info we get from reliable sources the better, that's for sure. Maybe I'm not understanding exactly what is meant by 36 hours, but people having their warranties denied because of exact number of lifetime launches kind of disproves what he's saying.

Unless all of their launches were within the last 36 hours... kind of see what I'm confused about?

And, with regards to the harddrive, it doesn't exactly take much space to store and increment "total number of VDC offs: 8." So, the harddrive argument is a bit... strange.

Anywho, I certainly welcome his input... he obviously has the tools of the trade to prove me wrong, which would be great for all GT-R owners (including myself).

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCTPREZ (Post 16372)
Hmmm? I called him back to tell him what you said (and confirm another post), and he explained that the black box is a hard drive of sorts and can only store so much info. He told me to believe what I wanted on forums, but he is a master Nissan mechanic that owns a new GTR, and has the equipment, contacts, and training to know this car inside and out. I gave him the link to the site, as he wants to join and clear up any misconceptions. I don't know...I just drive it, and have a blast, but thought i'd share if it helped others.


CCTPREZ 06-19-2009 01:56 PM

I think maybe i need to clarify, as it seems to be being overlooked. The 36 hours is CONTINUOUS, and is why he is trying to find out if just leaving the key in the on position will work instead of leaving the car running for 36 hours. The reason behind this is that if while driving, and no blackbox critical info is required to store, it keeps the old. If running for 36 hours continuous, it has nothing to revert back to as it completely over laps all data if recording for a continuous 36 hour period. Hopefully this is a little bit clearer, as I'm having trouble finding another way to explain it. I do realize this would be a heck of a task, and is why it would only be useful to those who really messed something up, and needed a last ditch effort to avoid spending the money on a warranty item when they could technically just leave the car on for a day and a half.

cmd51230 06-19-2009 02:00 PM

Heck of a task or not, if it saves you from a $25k bill, hell, I'll keep the thing running for 48 hours if needs be!

Please keep us in the loop as to what he finds out with regards to just leaving the key in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCTPREZ (Post 16375)
I think maybe i need to clarify, as it seems to be being overlooked. The 36 hours is CONTINUOUS, and is why he is trying to find out if just leaving the key in the on position will work instead of leaving the car running for 36 hours. The reason behind this is that if while driving, and no blackbox critical info is required to store, it keeps the old. If running for 36 hours continuous, it has nothing to revert back to as it completely over laps all data if recording for a continuous 36 hour period. Hopefully this is a little bit clearer, as I'm having trouble finding another way to explain it. I do realize this would be a heck of a task, and is why it would only be useful to those who really messed something up, and needed a last ditch effort to avoid spending the money on a warranty item when they could technically just leave the car on for a day and a half.


totsubo 06-19-2009 02:21 PM

We may soon find out.

I uninstalled the COBB AP and have been mod free for over 40 hours (road time). I may update my TCM.

NJNYCGTR 06-19-2009 02:24 PM

Yes I am very interested in this information. 36 hours is alot on time if you are just driving it sporadically so im sure you can store a few weeks of data. Lets say you have the car on 2 hours per day, then you are looking at around 2.5 weeks, rights?

CMD51230- Did your friend drive his/her car for more than 36 combined hours when the technician at nissan reported each and every non VDC launch? Do you think the black box cycles the recoding, but makes permanent logs for VDC off times?

cmd51230 06-19-2009 02:58 PM

I don't recall any discussions about exactly when and how long ago each VDC off was counted, but there are several well documented cases on another forum where the warranty has been denied, and it had a clear log of every single VDC off that has ever occurred.

That was confirmed by the owners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJNYCGTR (Post 16379)
Yes I am very interested in this information. 36 hours is alot on time if you are just driving it sporadically so im sure you can store a few weeks of data. Lets say you have the car on 2 hours per day, then you are looking at around 2.5 weeks, rights?

CMD51230- Did your friend drive his/her car for more than 36 combined hours when the technician at nissan reported each and every non VDC launch? Do you think the black box cycles the recoding, but makes permanent logs for VDC off times?


NJNYCGTR 06-19-2009 03:19 PM

Hmm, maybe it just bookmarks VDC off times and the driving experience at that time. I doubt that would take up a lot of memory since its just data being recorded. Figure it records 2-5 min of VDC off time thats only .1%-.23% of the storage time of the hard-drive, which may have a certain amount of memory allocated specifically to record VDC off times. Idk, just a thought.

mc 06-19-2009 03:35 PM

ANY VDC off's or ANY of the old "Launch Controls" are Permanently recorded. if you turn VDC off do a launch control it will show up like 2 years from now... this is confirmed!

the 36 hours is just for driving parameters like top speed RPM boost and stuff like that

cmd51230 06-19-2009 04:08 PM

Thank you mc, this is what MULTIPLE owners have attested.

BTW, how's the car running... they get that steering thing fixed??

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc (Post 16383)
ANY VDC off's or ANY of the old "Launch Controls" are Permanently recorded. if you turn VDC off do a launch control it will show up like 2 years from now... this is confirmed!

the 36 hours is just for driving parameters like top speed RPM boost and stuff like that


CCTPREZ 06-19-2009 04:35 PM

Just trying to help guys.... It was considered a new find is all. I didn't realize "MULTIPLE" owners knew or have tried leaving their cars running for 36 hours straight...First I heard, so thought i'd share. I'll be sure to post only personally confirmed info going forward, and keep the rest to myself. Didn't know it was already proved as inaccurate. I'd like to hear from those who have actually confirmed this though, as second hand info is the same both ways...right?

cmd51230 06-19-2009 04:46 PM

First of all, I still don't understand why you're being defensive with all this. When I first merely suggested everyone to just "take this advice with a grain of salt," you came back with "I told the tech what you said and he, having the tools and owning a GT-R, said you're full of it."

Seriously, you're taking this way too personally.

And, are you suggesting that we ask the many users who have had their warranties denied because Nissan NA was able to dump their VDC off/launches with VDC off since day 1 of ownership to come to this forum and personally just tell you what they've already posted on NAGTROC? Why don't you just go to NAGTROC and read their posts for yourself?... there are several of them.

Again, take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize no one is "blaming you for trying to help." Realize that when you post something on here, fellow owners will want to know whether it's credible, valid, and most importantly TRUE. Don't take it personally when it's revealed that what you posted wasn't 100% accurate... won't be the first and last time given how new and technically advanced the GT-R is.

If it helps at all, I've been corrected a billion times already!

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCTPREZ (Post 16386)
Just trying to help guys.... It was considered a new find is all. I didn't realize "MULTIPLE" owners knew or have tried leaving their cars running for 36 hours straight...First I heard, so thought i'd share. I'll be sure to post only personally confirmed info going forward, and keep the rest to myself. Didn't know it was already proved as inaccurate. I'd like to hear from those who have actually confirmed this though, as second hand info is the same both ways...right?


CCTPREZ 06-19-2009 05:28 PM

I think you're reading me all wrong. I keep seeing confusion about what I am saying ("running the car 36 hours continuous")... I have checked the the NAGTROC,36 hours, and unless I am missing something, haven't found anywhere where they mention running their cars a straight. I never said anyone was full of it, nor did the Nissan mechanic. He simply said don't believe everything you read (which is what is being done). I am not offended, have no hard feelings, and didn't mean to sound frustrated (hard to read emotion in writing). I just want to give as accurate info as possible from what I consider a reliable source.

Again, it seems like what I am saying about running the car 36 hours straight is being misunderstood in previous posts, and I haven't seen anyone saying that they have done this. I'll try when/if necessary, and post results when it is personally confirmed is all I am trying to say. Sorry to sound defensive, it's just a post.

ATLsupra 06-19-2009 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc (Post 16383)
ANY VDC off's or ANY of the old "Launch Controls" are Permanently recorded. if you turn VDC off do a launch control it will show up like 2 years from now... this is confirmed!

the 36 hours is just for driving parameters like top speed RPM boost and stuff like that

MC,
In the owner's manual, it mentions that when the car is stuck in snow and mud, one can turn off the VDC to get out the situation. If the above information is valid, It is still curious to me that how can they determine if one is using VDC off to use "launch control" for racing or "get off the snow/mud" without other information such as boost or speed being recorded.

cmd51230 06-19-2009 05:51 PM

Well, he sounded a bit too skeptical of the community online of actual owners off the bat. And, while I agree I'm posting anecdotal feedback, these are claims from actual owners of the car who have hit warranty snags because of what the blackbox was able to reveal. So, until someone can come on here and verify that running the car straight for 36 hours will erase everything, I revert to my original suggestion... "I'd take this revelation with a grain of salt."

If anything, for a piece of mind with regards to your warranty, no?

However, as I've stated before, I would be more than happy to be corrected in this case as this would be GREAT news for us owners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCTPREZ (Post 16389)
I think you're reading me all wrong. I keep seeing confusion about what I am saying ("running the car 36 hours continuous")... I have checked the the NAGTROC,36 hours, and unless I am missing something, haven't found anywhere where they mention running their cars a straight. I never said anyone was full of it, nor did the Nissan mechanic. He simply said don't believe everything you read (which is what is being done). I am not offended, have no hard feelings, and didn't mean to sound frustrated (hard to read emotion in writing). I just want to give as accurate info as possible from what I consider a reliable source.

Again, it seems like what I am saying about running the car 36 hours straight is being misunderstood in previous posts, and I haven't seen anyone saying that they have done this. I'll try when/if necessary, and post results when it is personally confirmed is all I am trying to say. Sorry to sound defensive, it's just a post.


mc 06-19-2009 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLsupra (Post 16390)
MC,
In the owner's manual, it mentions that when the car is stuck in snow and mud, one can turn off the VDC to get out the situation. If the above information is valid, It is still curious to me that how can they determine if one is using VDC off to use "launch control" for racing or "get off the snow/mud" without other information such as boost or speed being recorded.


yeah i was skeptical

but its seperate. they can actually count the LC's seperately from just riding around with VDC off. the sequence of doing the LC actually is recognized by flicker and it records a running count aswell as anything else thats done with VDC off. thats why that whole get out of snow thing is BS because why would it recognize that method if it wasnt an actual launch method ( atleast internally within nissan) to answer your question about the boost and speed im not sure if its permanent when VDC is off or not or if thats how they tell i just know one way or another they can specifically tell you well youve had VDC off 10 times but have done 3 launches or something like that.

i did just 2 of the " old" launches in my car before the TCM update and they will be with me for the life of the car

ive seen a few guys go in for service or warranty issues and Nissan actually tells them youve done "X" amount of launches with VDC off. what amazed me was in a few cases they were like 7-10K miles old :eek:



the letting the car sit or driving around for 36 hour scheme people came up with is more for like you dont want it to show you did 160 mph or that your boost increased or something like that, theres just no getting around the VDC thing it knows all!!!!!!!!!!


what i dont know is if it still keeps a running tab with the new TCM update i assume it does because you have to sign something about still not turning VDC off when getting it

ATLsupra 06-19-2009 08:50 PM

Very interesting topic for sure.

Just a little background for myself, I graduated college with a Computer Science degree, so I consider myself a nerd :p If a blackbox is a harddrive based, then it means it has a lifetime, and the data can be wiped out with strong magnetic close to it. So eventually the harddrive will be close to end of it's life and data will be lost. Even with the latest Solid State Disk or Flash based Drive, after repeatedly use, it can still go bad after years(For example, Ipod, or usb storage drive). I wonder what Nissan will do when that happen. Obviously if the blackbox is just for data collection, then if the blackbox is wiped out, it shouldn't affect the car at all and will start to collect new data once the car is turned on again. Just some random thoughts from me :D

sstevens06 06-19-2009 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc (Post 16392)

...dont want it to show you did 160 mph ...


While it certainly won't void the warranty, something like that is not what I would want the State Police to know. ;)

GTRXLR8 06-20-2009 08:33 AM

So if we brought the car to a scrap yard and ran the big magnet over the top of the car irt might wipe out the hidden balck box? lol

nydoc 06-20-2009 08:18 PM

It seems to me that it is just a matter of time before someone finds how and where this data is stored. Once that is accomplished it should be a trivial thing to wipe it clean. It is also a matter of time for the costs associated with the GT-R to come down to a reasonable level. I'm sure it will always be an expensive car to own, but it will be nice when we can modify and repair this machine without too much worry over factory warranty. I'm not into trying to put one over on Nissan. If I break something by overzealous modification, then I should not be expecting someone else to foot the bill. The whole concept of data recorders is a genie we can not put back into the bottle, unfortunately.

rgo808 06-21-2009 01:34 PM

we should ask the race team that has taken the whole car apart , I bet they know

discodan 06-21-2009 03:01 PM

Cracking the black box is going to be pretty tricky I reckon, given that all data that a local dealer can get is only interpreted by Nissan Japan HQ (or so I've been told here in the Service Center). Sure they can get the codes here off, but they have to send them over there for clarification....


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